Illusionary Weaponry - Guild Wars Forums

FrogDevourer · Feb 22, 2005, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Does the IW stack with damage from Conjure XX ?
Does the IW stack with dmg enhancers such as Power Attack or Strength of Honor ?
Does the energy stealing mod work with IW damage ?
Could anyone point me to a classical IW build or post one ?

With an enchanting pommel, an energy leech sword, and the new incarnation of distorsion, that looks like an acceptable core based on Illusion only. That would leave a lot of space for other attributes and skills. Did I miss a big drawback in IW (barring enchantment removal that is) ?

Sausaletus Rex · Feb 22, 2005, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

Does the IW stack with damage from Conjure XX ?
Does the IW stack with dmg enhancers such as Power Attack or Strength of Honor ?
Does the energy stealing mod work with IW damage ?

No. No. And No. IW replaces your weapon's damage with its own, actually turning your weapon attack into a touch based magic attack, and that extends to skills and damage buffs as well as meaning that it turns off any "on hit" or activated mods such as energy stealing. No matter what you do with that weapon you'll only get the damage that IW tells you you'll get. Of course, that damage ignores armor and lots of other protections and while IW overrides the damage on something like Power Attack it also overrides the damage on things like Hundred Blades and Distracting Blow as well without overriding that secondary effect. Distracting Blow, Disrupting Chop, Savage Slash, they'll all do IW damage and interrupt, too.

What you really want with IW is a speed buff not a damage buff. You only have so long to use IW so you want to make the most out of it. You don't want a +1/-1 sword. You want a +speed -damage/criticals blade with Frenzy. But you're right in that +duration is similarly nice to have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

Could anyone point me to a classical IW build or post one ?

There are a few in the build directory at the moment. They're a bit old and might be out of date but they're mostly solid and should be able to point you in the right way.

Rush's is an example that plays heavily to the Mesmer side of things with some key Domination skills sprinkled in for caster disruption before closing to carve them up.

Spooky's plays heavily to Warrior and Tactics to compensate for a Mesmer's naturally weaker defense to create an I-Wep build that can stand in the fires to get the job done.

And mine (by way of the aG) is an example of a I-Wep build that's all about combining offensive Warrior skills with Mesmer disruption to go for the kill quickly.

There are a few poking around on the rest of the boards, too, I think. I'd look here first.

FrogDevourer · Feb 23, 2005, 10:07 AM // 10:07

Damn. My guess was no, no and yes.

I'm not sure I understand while some triggered effects are cancelled (energy leech) while others are not. The energy leech is supposed to be triggered by a hit, not by damage the damage done.

Anyway, thanks for the links. I had missed the discussion in the other thread. I better understand these IW builds.

I hoped I could use IW on my Mo/Me but if I don't have access to energy leech, Distorsion is ruled out.

Sausaletus Rex · Feb 24, 2005, 12:08 AM // 00:08

I haven't run an IW build in a while so I can't really say for sure exactly what it cancels or triggers any more. Basically, I've considered it to negate things that are "on hit" or "physical" while still triggering things like "on damage" (As I believe IW will still trigger something like Healing Seed, although I could well be wrong. It's got several odd little wrinkles that don't apply to any other skill because of the way it works).

IW replaces your weapon, basically. It overwrites the damage and any triggerable modifiers. There's no +1/-1 on a hit because there's no weapon hit, it's a touch magic attack now. The only thing that remains from your weapon is the swing speed and the various permanent modifiers. So IW with a sword is different with IW with a hammer. And you'll still get things like +speed or +hp while you won't get them if they have a specific trigger. You get the inherint properties - minus, of course, damage - of your weapon but nothing else because for the time being your weapon is gone, it's now replaced with IW.

Similarly, you won't get any adrenaline while using IW, either. You're not swingnign a weapon, you're doing no energy touch magic attacks with a casting time of your weapon's swing rate. Like I said, it's odd. So things like Distortion are probably a bad idea - unless you're running a lot of Inspiration or other energy management - as are any adrenal Warrior skills.

There, I hope I've cleared that up because I'm now confused myself...

FrogDevourer · Feb 24, 2005, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sausaletus Rex

So things like Distortion are probably a bad idea - unless you're running a lot of Inspiration or other energy management - as are any adrenal Warrior skills.

Why? I kind of like the new incarnation. The former one could drain your energy very fast (3energy per hit), but now you can switch on/off the new Distorsion as needed. Basically if you're attacked by 3 swordsmen (worst case), you'll be hit 1.8 times per second. Add 1 energy per second to keep Distorsion up at all times and you have 2.8 energy per second for a 75% defense against all attacks. So that's 1.5 energy degeneration total.

Of course, you won't have Distorsion up at all times. Contrary to other stances, in dire situations it can protect you for up to 30s. Add a couple of energy management skills or Bonetti's Defense and it looks like a decent defensive skill.

I wanted to avoid secondary warrior because without IW, a classical Me/W isn't very attractive to me. Initially I wanted to reuse my Mo/Me (easier in a 3 day BWE) using monk skills for defense. Unfortunately I think I'll be forced to go secondary warrior to increase my damage output with 100blades or Flurry, or to have quick interrupts like in your build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sausaletus Rex

There, I hope I've cleared that up because I'm now confused myself...

A little I guess. But it is odd that IW triggers "on damage" effects like Disrupting Chop, isn't it ? I expected IW to trigger "on hit" effects only.

[color=red]Double posted to add : [/color]
Forgot to ask: what is the max mod available for increased attack speed and enchantment duration (on a sword) ?

Sausaletus Rex · Feb 24, 2005, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

Why? I kind of like the new incarnation.

I don't. The new version lasts 5 seconds for 5 energy and drains 3~1 energy on hit with a 5 second recharge. Sounds okay, especially if you're pumping Illusion, but that's still a lot of energy.

Consider the simples case, a hammer warrior swinging at you. A hammer swings, say, once every 2 seconds. You'll have a 75% chance of it draining 1 energy when you're hit. When you're hit you lose 1 energy. So, statisticaly over time, that averages out to .75 energy every 2 seconds or .375 energy every second. That should look a bit familiar because a pip is .333 energy every second. Just one Hammer Warrior swinging at you has given you more than a pip of energy degeneration. Also, you'll be spending 5 energy every 5 seconds to maintain that, as well, and that's a further 1 energy every second or a full 3 pips of degen. You're taking a full caster worth of degen, you're wiping out your energy regeneration as a Mesmer, to get 25% damage against a lone Hammer swinger to say nothing of those wars using axes and swords or those Rangers using the faster plucking bows. That's a bad tradeoff, especially as with a single attacker you're better off just letting your healer handle things. A lone healer will outheal a lone attack, hands down, so unless there's a lot of bad things happening at once, you're safe. Where defensive buffs like Distortion prove their worth is when you get focused. When you have two or three or four wars banging on you that's when getting 25% damage is a good thing (Incidentally, this is why Riposte is poor. It's damage reduction against a single target, not against a group, and groups are what you care about.) but, unfortunately, the energy sapping sideeffect of Distortion scales up the more people you have banging away on you. Two hammer wars are 1.5 energy every 2 seconds. Three are 2.25 energy. That's just over 2 and 3 pips of degen respectively. Flurry, swords, anything that ups swing rates, just makes your energy flow away faster.

I think I'll take a pass on that stance, thank you.

Also, you can't use Bonetti's Defense or Warrior's Endurance with Distortion because, guess what? They're stances, too, so they'll cancel Distortion. A +1/-1 weapon is an option (though not with IW) but again, you can't use things like Frenzy because, guess what? That's a stance, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

I wanted to avoid secondary warrior because without IW, a classical Me/W isn't very attractive to me. Initially I wanted to reuse my Mo/Me (easier in a 3 day BWE) using monk skills for defense. Unfortunately I think I'll be forced to go secondary warrior to increase my damage output with 100blades or Flurry, or to have quick interrupts like in your build.

You can use IW without being a Warrior, sure. It's just that IW works best with Warrior because Warrior is all about getting the most out of melee attack skills and that's basically what IW is. So the traditional IW build is Me/Wa. You can use it on your Mo/Me, it's just going to require you to get in close and you won't have the skills to increase your swing rate or otherwise up that damage. Well, there's Smite, but you can't use Judge's Insight or things like that because you're already ignoring armor. 30 odd damage a swing guaranteed is nothing to sniff at, you won't be pwning people by yourself but as the second or third person on an assist train you can do some damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

But it is odd that IW triggers "on damage" effects like Disrupting Chop, isn't it ? I expected IW to trigger "on hit" effects only.

Disrupting Chop isn't "on damage", though. It's on hit. When it hit, if it hits someone using a skill, that skill is interrupted and locked for whatever it is these days. At the same time on damage it does x. Where x is your weapon's damage plus whatever the skill might add. IW replaces x. It doesn't replace the interrupt. Savage Slash will still interrupt it just won't do any extra damage because your damage = IW's damage, period.

I'm just not sure how it interracts with all sorts of buffs like the Orders or Healing Seed and things like that. I can't remember what it triggered and it wouldn't surprise me if things changed between then and now. As a general guidelines I'd say things that require physical or on damage like the Orders or Barbs are disallowed while things that require on damage like Healing Seed are allowed. So, it'd carve through things like Distortion or Healing Hands or Shield of Deflection but it'd pop off Reversal of Fortune and Divine Intervention et al with the notable caveat of "if I'm right".

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

Forgot to ask: what is the max mod available for increased attack speed and enchantment duration (on a sword) ?

I'm not sure. I believe it's around 20%.

FrogDevourer · Feb 24, 2005, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sausaletus Rex

Where defensive buffs like Distortion prove their worth is when you get focused. When you have two or three or four wars banging on you that's when getting 25% damage is a good thing (Incidentally, this is why Riposte is poor. It's damage reduction against a single target, not against a group, and groups are what you care about.) but, unfortunately, the energy sapping sideeffect of Distortion scales up the more people you have banging away on you.

Exactly. I see Distortion as a limited immunity against focus fire. Sure, most warrior stances are better but they wear off in 10s or so and they have a long recharge time. After that, three warriors will slice you into tiny pieces. Distorsion does burn your energy quickly but it helps against focus fire for 30/40s, and when you energy is getting low, another stance will be recharged to take over, and particularly Bonetti to get some energy back.

My initial idea was IW / 100blades / flurry for dmg, Distorsion/Bonnetti for defense, I.Weakness / Healing Signet for backup, and Sprint.

What kind of defense setup would you recommend ? A couple of warrior stances only ?

Ensign · Feb 24, 2005, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

Exactly. I see Distortion as a limited immunity against focus fire. Sure, most warrior stances are better but they wear off in 10s or so and they have a long recharge time.

If you're the target of Focus Fire, Distortion is going to wear off after 10-15 seconds anyway, just because it has devoured all of your energy - and that's assuming you're starting with a full energy bar and don't use any other skills besides Distortion. The Warrior stances have comparable drawbacks like not being able to use skills. The big difference is that while a Tactics stance has a long cooldown, you still have energy afterwards - Distortion cools down quickly but you don't have the energy to use it on anything.

For an IW build I think you're spending way too much on defense. You need to assume that you aren't going to be the focused target and concentrate on the beatdown - speed buffs, interrupts, all of that good stuff. If you get focused, use the best stance for getting out of there - Sprint.

Peace,
-CxE

Pharalon · Feb 24, 2005, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Max %enchant duration I have seen is 20%. Not sure about IAS.

For defense, I've found having a good shield on swap and Shield Stance with a high tactics to be your best option. Disciplined stance as well if you've got the spare skill slot. That'll give you 30 seconds reprieve if yuo're in trouble

Sausaletus Rex · Feb 24, 2005, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

Exactly. I see Distortion as a limited immunity against focus fire. Sure, most warrior stances are better but they wear off in 10s or so and they have a long recharge time. After that, three warriors will slice you into tiny pieces. Distorsion does burn your energy quickly but it helps against focus fire for 30/40s, and when you energy is getting low, another stance will be recharged to take over, and particularly Bonetti to get some energy back.

But it doesn't just burn energy quickly. It burns a lot of energy quickly.

Okay, say we use your example of two wars smacking on you. A sword hits once every 1.33 seconds. 75% chance to lose energy and you lose .75 energy every 1.33 seconds. Two wars means 1.5 en gone evey 1.33 seconds. That's 33.75 energy in 30 seconds (just over a full 3 pips which would be 30 energy over 30 seconds in other words) we agree that spamming Distortion is good for another 3 pips worth of degen so that's 63.75 energy gone from your energy bar before you even cast another skill. Distortion will drain you completely if you're focused long before you ever get to 30 seconds even if you just stand there and do nothing.

It might do the job of letting you survive fairly well but it's also going to leave you useless afterwards. I don't like making myself useless on purpose. For comparison's sake, you're a 4 pip character, it's going to take you 30 seconds to regenerate 40 energy once it's gone.

Don't get me wrong, Distortion is probably where it should be. It's useful but it's too costly to run continuously. Given that I'd rather take something else. But it's about where I'd envision most defensive stances being. Short duration, short recharge, spammable protection. Something that's going to cost to maintain making it untenable over the long haul but that you can still use for defense as long as you want. It's not like any of them are perfect defenses, they're all percentile based and with enough brute force someone can punch through even if they can't find the type of damage that'll slice you up. It's the stances that offer something else like Sprint or Frenzy that need the downtime so they can't be abused so they need either big costs or big cooldowns, preferably the later if we're talking Warrior stances. Of course, I'd also put a few more ways of canceling stances in the game, too. Wild Blow should blow any stance it hits, for one. A few other Warrior attacks should cancel stances too. And so should some skills from other professions, chiefly Elementalist - who'd have some sort of secondary effect to a few of their damaging spells probably in the Air or Earth line to end stances - Monks - who need some defense against physical attackers so things likeAmnity or Pacifism would not only stop attackers but canel stances, too, giving them a few more strategic uses to boot - and Necromancer - who are geared to screw up Warriors in many ways some of their hexes in Curses, like Rigor Mortis, could stop a stance. Heck, even something as simple as having any character who's knocked down lose their stance would work. That gives a sorely needed boost to hammer Wars and Ele and Mon have knockdown skills as well. From a flavor standpoint, stances are a way of positioning your body in a fight so when you get forced off your feet you also lose that positioning.

However, the point abut Distortion is that while I feel it's pretty fairly balanced, I still don't like the side effect. It's one I wouldn't want to have on my characters although I could see why people would.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

What kind of defense setup would you recommend ? A couple of warrior stances only ?

I wouldn't, actually. None of those builds I mentioned earlier are actually mine. The closest is the IW build I ran a few times but that was just something I tweaked based off a build from someone in aG during an AC. They're not very indicative of how I'd go about things left to my own devices.

A Mes/War IW build is made for one thing and one thing only - carving up the enemy. By going Mes primary, which is what you'll want so you can get Illusion as high as possible (it's just replacing the customary weapon attribute in a Warrior build so you treat it the same even though there are some wrinkles), you've already given up a lot of survivability because you don't have Warrior armor, you're stuck with inferior Mesmer armor. What you do have though is 150% of the energy and twice the regeneration so you have a lot more ability to do things with that energy. In other words, by going Mes/War I've already determined that defense is not my strong suit but I am able to pump out a lot more offense. I would, then, not bother to compensate for a weakness but play to my strengths.

Using stances involves taking a lot of Tactics. I'd only dump as much into Tactics as I needed to pick up a good shield. The rest of my AP and my skill slots go to making me as efficient a killer as I could be. If I was hunting caster, I'd take some Domination interrupts. Otherwise, I'd go Inspiration for a bit of energy management and denial. The defenses I'll leave to the characters on my team who are actually concerned with defense. That Prot Monk or Healing Monk will cover me a lot better than I ever could and while I could make their job easier, I'd rather make *my* job easier so they don't have to do theirs for so long in the first place.

But, if I was thinking defense, I'd look to things that are dual purpose. Skills I can turn to both a defensive and offensive advantage. Things like Sympathetic Viseage which won't protect me as well as Distortion if I'm focused but will hose those people beating on me a lot better while my Monk throws a Healing Seed or SoD my way which'll work even better than Distortion at keeping me alive. Remember, 25% of the hits get through with Distortion. Against a competant Warrior or Ranger you're still talking 10DPS if not more. That adds up when it's from multiple targets so you're only prolonging the inevitable (Of course, that's what you're doing the whole battle shortening or prolonging the inevitable in significant ways) you're going to need outside help to survive even with Distortion. I'd rather if focused be able to make one of those folks beating on me pay 15% and trust my healers and support players to keep me on my feet.

Pharalon · Feb 25, 2005, 12:05 AM // 00:05

I may be on crack (it's known to happen...) but I think Distortion may hit 0 energy drain on evasion at lvl 16. Perhaps 17. If you're running IW you'll be close to that lvl Illusion anyway, which is certainly something to think about. It's still taking most of your energy regen, but you could keep it up indefinately then.

Ensign · Feb 25, 2005, 12:17 AM // 00:17

% Enchantment Duration goes to 20%, on a pommel / grip / wrapping. IAS goes up to +10%, coupled with -20% criticals, also on a pommel / grip / wrapping.

Peace,
-CxE

Sausaletus Rex · Feb 25, 2005, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharalon

I may be on crack (it's known to happen...) but I think Distortion may hit 0 energy drain on evasion at lvl 16. Perhaps 17. If you're running IW you'll be close to that lvl Illusion anyway, which is certainly something to think about. It's still taking most of your energy regen, but you could keep it up indefinately then.

If you could get it to 0 en loss (And I really hope that isn't possible for the sake of game balance. Yet I really hope it is possible for the sake of pwning people hard...) then that would be an exceptional skill. You do have to take a legendary rune to get it there and possibly a "+1 while using Distortion" but as you say, you'll be wanting to scrape the ceiling with Illusion anyway and like I said, defense isn't my priority, so I'll take the health hit for 25% damage...

You can work around an equivalent of 3 degen, if that's all it is. You're a mes, you have Inspiration and things like Power Drain and Energy Tap sitting there to get you energy. You'll be crunched if you're constantly being attacked but you can eke by. What I don't like is how costs scale up as you add more attackers. Getting to 0 en on hit does away with that...

Ensign · Feb 25, 2005, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Assuming that they still scale everything around level 15, it'll hit 0 energy at either level 13 or level 19. Just going out on a limb, I'd assume that Distortion scales up like Life Siphon and Faintheartedness, meaning that you don't hit 0 energy until level 19, which is pretty much unreachable. But if it flips over at level 13...

Well, that's pretty bloody good for a skill that can't be countered in any reasonable fashion, don't you think?

That just goes to show just how bad the -1 energy per hit really is.

Peace,
-CxE

walder · Feb 25, 2005, 05:18 AM // 05:18

I made a variation of the IW build a little while ago:

Mes/W

14 Illusion
12 Tactics
4 Fast Cast

IW*
Hundred Blades
Flurry
Disciplined Stance
Illusion of Haste
Distracting Blow
Sympathetic Visage
Conjure Phantasm

This is using the speed buffs from the Warrior line with a little DOT and mesmer counter. What I am considering is following Rex's build a little more and taking out Phantasm or Sympathetic for Savage Slash because one interrupt might not be enough. My thinking was that I probably would not need another interrupt if i have Sympathetic in there but it makes the build a little more anti caster instead of anti warrior. I'll probably keep all in my inventory and test them out.

FrogDevourer · Feb 25, 2005, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Thanks a lot for this input. As usual I'm learning a lot from your experience. I wish I had more time to experiment with skills and items.

I still don't know if I'm willing to dedicate so much resources (lvling time & gold) to make a pure IW build (Me/W) with as much dmg output as possible. Moreover I'm not sure I'll be able to have a good monk guarding my back so I know I tend to have a 'self sufficiency bias' in my skill selection.

How does the lvl20 character creation work ? What kind of equipment and how much attribute/refund points do they have ?

walder · Feb 25, 2005, 06:58 PM // 18:58

The level 20's come fully loaded. You will have 200 attribute points, 10 refund points, your choice of both professions, and you are given standard starting gear. The gear is only ok though, but I think you can change it if you find or buy something better.

Feb 22, 2005, 03:53 PM // 15:53	#1
FrogDevourer on a GW break until C4 Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: In your shadow Guild: Servants of Fortuna	Illusionary Weaponry Does the IW stack with damage from Conjure XX ? Does the IW stack with dmg enhancers such as Power Attack or Strength of Honor ? Does the energy stealing mod work with IW damage ? Could anyone point me to a classical IW build or post one ? With an enchanting pommel, an energy leech sword, and the new incarnation of distorsion, that looks like an acceptable core based on Illusion only. That would leave a lot of space for other attributes and skills. Did I miss a big drawback in IW (barring enchantment removal that is) ? __________________

Feb 23, 2005, 10:07 AM // 10:07	#3
FrogDevourer on a GW break until C4 Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: In your shadow Guild: Servants of Fortuna	Damn. My guess was no, no and yes. I'm not sure I understand while some triggered effects are cancelled (energy leech) while others are not. The energy leech is supposed to be triggered by a hit, not by damage the damage done. Anyway, thanks for the links. I had missed the discussion in the other thread. I better understand these IW builds. I hoped I could use IW on my Mo/Me but if I don't have access to energy leech, Distorsion is ruled out. __________________

Feb 24, 2005, 12:08 AM // 00:08	#4
Sausaletus Rex Death From Above Join Date: Dec 2004	I haven't run an IW build in a while so I can't really say for sure exactly what it cancels or triggers any more. Basically, I've considered it to negate things that are "on hit" or "physical" while still triggering things like "on damage" (As I believe IW will still trigger something like Healing Seed, although I could well be wrong. It's got several odd little wrinkles that don't apply to any other skill because of the way it works). IW replaces your weapon, basically. It overwrites the damage and any triggerable modifiers. There's no +1/-1 on a hit because there's no weapon hit, it's a touch magic attack now. The only thing that remains from your weapon is the swing speed and the various permanent modifiers. So IW with a sword is different with IW with a hammer. And you'll still get things like +speed or +hp while you won't get them if they have a specific trigger. You get the inherint properties - minus, of course, damage - of your weapon but nothing else because for the time being your weapon is gone, it's now replaced with IW. Similarly, you won't get any adrenaline while using IW, either. You're not swingnign a weapon, you're doing no energy touch magic attacks with a casting time of your weapon's swing rate. Like I said, it's odd. So things like Distortion are probably a bad idea - unless you're running a lot of Inspiration or other energy management - as are any adrenal Warrior skills. There, I hope I've cleared that up because I'm now confused myself... __________________ In my day, we didn't have virtual reality. If a one-eyed razorback barbarian warrior was chasing you with an ax, you just had to hope you could outrun him.

Feb 25, 2005, 12:17 AM // 00:17	#12
Ensign Just Plain Fluffy Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Berkeley, CA Guild: Idiot Savants	% Enchantment Duration goes to 20%, on a pommel / grip / wrapping. IAS goes up to +10%, coupled with -20% criticals, also on a pommel / grip / wrapping. Peace, -CxE __________________ Don't argue with idiots. They bring you to their level and beat you with experience.

Feb 25, 2005, 12:35 AM // 00:35	#14
Ensign Just Plain Fluffy Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Berkeley, CA Guild: Idiot Savants	Assuming that they still scale everything around level 15, it'll hit 0 energy at either level 13 or level 19. Just going out on a limb, I'd assume that Distortion scales up like Life Siphon and Faintheartedness, meaning that you don't hit 0 energy until level 19, which is pretty much unreachable. But if it flips over at level 13... Well, that's pretty bloody good for a skill that can't be countered in any reasonable fashion, don't you think? That just goes to show just how bad the -1 energy per hit really is. Peace, -CxE __________________ Don't argue with idiots. They bring you to their level and beat you with experience.

Feb 24, 2005, 11:43 PM // 23:43	#9
Pharalon Beta Tester Join Date: Jan 2005 Guild: Carebear Club	Max %enchant duration I have seen is 20%. Not sure about IAS. For defense, I've found having a good shield on swap and Shield Stance with a high tactics to be your best option. Disciplined stance as well if you've got the spare skill slot. That'll give you 30 seconds reprieve if yuo're in trouble

Feb 25, 2005, 12:05 AM // 00:05	#11
Pharalon Beta Tester Join Date: Jan 2005 Guild: Carebear Club	I may be on crack (it's known to happen...) but I think Distortion may hit 0 energy drain on evasion at lvl 16. Perhaps 17. If you're running IW you'll be close to that lvl Illusion anyway, which is certainly something to think about. It's still taking most of your energy regen, but you could keep it up indefinately then.

Feb 25, 2005, 05:18 AM // 05:18	#15
walder Elite Guru Join Date: Feb 2005	I made a variation of the IW build a little while ago: Mes/W 14 Illusion 12 Tactics 4 Fast Cast IW* Hundred Blades Flurry Disciplined Stance Illusion of Haste Distracting Blow Sympathetic Visage Conjure Phantasm This is using the speed buffs from the Warrior line with a little DOT and mesmer counter. What I am considering is following Rex's build a little more and taking out Phantasm or Sympathetic for Savage Slash because one interrupt might not be enough. My thinking was that I probably would not need another interrupt if i have Sympathetic in there but it makes the build a little more anti caster instead of anti warrior. I'll probably keep all in my inventory and test them out. __________________ Robotic Chuck Norris owes you Nothing!

Feb 25, 2005, 12:50 PM // 12:50	#16
FrogDevourer on a GW break until C4 Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: In your shadow Guild: Servants of Fortuna	Thanks a lot for this input. As usual I'm learning a lot from your experience. I wish I had more time to experiment with skills and items. I still don't know if I'm willing to dedicate so much resources (lvling time & gold) to make a pure IW build (Me/W) with as much dmg output as possible. Moreover I'm not sure I'll be able to have a good monk guarding my back so I know I tend to have a 'self sufficiency bias' in my skill selection. How does the lvl20 character creation work ? What kind of equipment and how much attribute/refund points do they have ? __________________

Feb 25, 2005, 06:58 PM // 18:58	#17
walder Elite Guru Join Date: Feb 2005	The level 20's come fully loaded. You will have 200 attribute points, 10 refund points, your choice of both professions, and you are given standard starting gear. The gear is only ok though, but I think you can change it if you find or buy something better. __________________ Robotic Chuck Norris owes you Nothing!